Posts by Juan Viejo2

39

on the subject of elders reading this message board

by cptkirk in

i'm still laughing to myself thinking about elders/bethelites reading this messageboard.

yet another contradiction to throw in the basket.

didn't they always say how dangerous it is to read anything that contradicts the teachings of the wts?

Juan Viejo2

I think a few elders and members of the R&F may come here to actually know more about their own religion. You won't find this level of discussion and insightful writing anywhere near a Kingdom Hall or from a WT publication.

There are adults exchanging ideas and facts here. JWs can't do that at the KH or with JWs who aren't also searching. When I was a mid-teen I was always looking for some adult JW who would be willing to really sit down and get dirty with me. I wanted to learn. I had a thirst for knowledge. My father did not have the intellectual capacity to retain or understand the deeper things the WT taught. My mom was much brighter and could understand concepts far better, but she was more about service and helping the old ladies at the KH run their errands.

On two occasions I actually had deep conversations with an older JW brother. Both times I came away with far more doubts about the Watchtower.

I really believe there are many elders who come here to get a broader knowledge. I totally agree with Jean-Luc that some of them may never be able to leave the WT, but still want to know the truth about the mess they're in.

JV

19

Convention talks on education?

by Quandry in

yikes...at work next week i will be spending an entire day in a room with a young jw woman.

(i work at an elementary school and we will be doing photocopying and other assorted things).

this young woman is a gung-ho witness but she is going to be going to college.

Juan Viejo2

FYI - The same day this thread started, I got a great article submission on this very subjectefrom Mad Sweeney. I ultimately split it into two articles.

Sweeney does his usual yeoman job on the subject. How anyone can read this or that article and not wonder what the Watchtower is smoking, must be insane. Even more indefensible are the JWs themselves. Are they really that stupid? But thousands were and I know quite a few of them personally - including myself.

I graduated from high school with a very high grade point average. On the other hand, straight A's and an F (that's a great story for another time), don't do you much good if your parents don't have the money or the will to send you to college. Most of my classes in HS were non-college prep courses, but I got in language, advanced English, was high in math. But no college prep. I actually won a scholarship, enough to pay for my first semester of Junior College. So I did go on my own dime for part of the first year.

My dad sent mixed messages. "John, you can live at home as long as you are going to school. But if you leave school and turn 18, you're on your own and will need to find your own place." So does that mean that I should, or should not, go to college?

I actually lived within a short bus drive to a University of California campus (Riverside), and in those days tuition was free (if you could qualify). All I had to do was come up with money for books and materials. What a sad waste of the sharp brain I had at that time. Now look at me - just a grubby old bandido...

Anyway, here are the links to Sweeney's two part essay on JWs and Education:

http://insidethewatchtower.com/doctrine/a-young-mans-decision/

http://insidethewatchtower.com/doctrine/the-watchtower-jehovah%E2%80%99s-witnesses-and-education/

And for those of you who may have missed it, be sure to read Terry's article as well, adapted from his post here:

http://insidethewatchtower.com/history/theres-never-any-pony/

I'm sure both would like to read your comments...

JV

54

Stop making the BINARY error of Jehovah's Witness theology

by Terry in

true or false.. black or white.. life or death.. .

the above are binary.

this or that.. computing is based on binary choices.

Juan Viejo2

Geez, Terry - you are on a roll. Great post as always!

JV

172

The Polarizing of America: Rep. Michele Bachmann wins Iowa Straw Poll

by darthfader in

http://news.yahoo.com/bachmann-wins-gop-2012-test-vote-224544660.html.

minnesota rep. michele bachmann won a test vote of iowans on saturday, a show of strength five months before the state's caucuses kick off the gop presidential nominating season.. the result is the first indication of what iowans think of the field of republicans competing for the chance to challenge president barack obama next fall.

but it's hardly predictive of who will win the winter iowa contest, much less the party nod or the white house.. well... there goes the neighborhood....

Juan Viejo2

Terry,

Excellent observation and the treadmill was a great analogy. More importantly, you are absolutely accurate in your observation.

Republicans in every election accuse the Democrats of being spenders, and yet every Republican administration has outspent its Democratic controlled predessor.

Republicans always talk about not increasing taxes, and yet the effective tax rates tend to be higher AFTER the Republicans leave office.

The Democrats accuse the Republicans of being "warmongers," and yet the four most expensive wars with the greatest loss of life in the 20th century were authorized by Democrats: Wilson (WW1), Franklin Roosevelt (WW2), Harry Truman (Korea), and John Kennedy along with Lyndon Johnson (Viet Nam).

Obama complains that Dubya entered into two wars without paying for them for the benefit of multi-billionaire defense contractors (using off ledger budget entries). Lyndon Johnson kept military contractors busy billionaires during the Viet Nam war, while promoting his "guns and butter" approach to the budgets he approved.

I'm not saying that what any of theses presidents and their administrations did was wrong. World War 1, Korea, and Viet Nam might have been ill-advised adventures, but World War 2? I'm glad that Roosevelt fought Republican opposition and committed the nation whole-heartedly to that fight.

So Terry, you are right on the mark. As citizens all we have is one vote and then we have to go along with the ride. But the direction of that ride is always in the same direction, no matter who is in charge.

JV

23

Identifying God and true religion

by Terry in

there is no doctrine required for kindness.. you can't get it "wrong".

there is no judgement.. there is nothing to memorize when putting your hand out to a suffering person.

the human touch on a fevered brow and the comforting squeeze of the hand is irrefutable.. you don't have to graduate from a seminary to offer a smile and ask somebody how they are---how they really are.. there are no grounds for debate or rebuttal in visiting the ill, the dying, the widowed or the orphaned.. .

Juan Viejo2

Terry, did you get my PM?

23

Jehovah's Witnesses: A family conversion

by discreetslave in

another piece on the joys of witnesshood.. http://heraldsun.com/bookmark/14860998/article-jehovah%27s+witnesses%3a+a+family+conversion#.tj2jip7llug.

unky punk is this swarm potential?.

Juan Viejo2

Blonde, blue-eyed, ethnically northern European sheep living in North Carolina.

Blonde, blue-eyed, ethnically northern European idiots wasting their lives believing in fairy tales in North Carolina.

JV

33

Email doing the rounds: Bro. from Walkill shared news

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

fyi.

from worldwide report a brother from wallkill shared during congregation may 10, 2010. .

there are now 16 printing branches in the world, all of them are electronically connected so if one branch had to shut down because of disaster such as an earthquake, all they need to do is transfer the files to another branch and shift the workload there.

Juan Viejo2

Sorry - damn IE9 again...

What I was trying to say was...

I thought "Sign language" is what they spoke in Sino, that rather large Asian country. You know, as in

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino%E2%80%93Soviet_border_conflict

I know, bad and taseless to both the deaf and the Sinolians, but...

Don't most deaf people read in the language they speak?

33

Email doing the rounds: Bro. from Walkill shared news

by truthseeker in

jw
friends

fyi.

from worldwide report a brother from wallkill shared during congregation may 10, 2010. .

there are now 16 printing branches in the world, all of them are electronically connected so if one branch had to shut down because of disaster such as an earthquake, all they need to do is transfer the files to another branch and shift the workload there.

Juan Viejo2

62

On A Scale Of 1 to 10 How Much Knowledge Does A Jehovah's Witness Have About Their Religion?

by minimus in

jw
friends

years (many decades) ago, most jws knew what their religion taught.

they could go toe to toe with a minister or priest and make some good points.. i believe today's witness knows little about most of the convoluted teachings and revisions of the "truth".

yesteryear's witnesses got a 9/10.

Juan Viejo2

The simplistic 3rd grade reading level of most of their magazines and books does nothing to educate the rank & file great crowd of JWs.

Everything has been dumbed down since the late '70s when books like Insight to the Scriptures and Commentary on the Book of James were published. The new "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" book is nearly unreadable, which I did in about 15 minutes. Good thing I was on sitting on the crapper when I was reading it. It's a gagfest for sure.

There is no encouragement for the R&F to really study the Bible or even the WT books. Why? They can't really think about what they are reading. They can't ask questions without raising suspicion about their motives. During field service, they won't stand at a door and take on an argumentive householder like I was trained to do - even as a 12-year old publisher. Except for the two dozen or so verses they've memorized during TMS, they can rarely look up any scripture that doesn't have a bookmark already in place. The skills and art of debate are undeveloped talents for modern JWs.

What I see now when JWs want to respond to an Internet discussion or want to make a comment on an ex-JW website is this:

They've opened up their Watchtower CD, looked up a word or phrase that appears in the post or article, and then copy and paste the Watchtower quote directly into the answer or comment box. 80% of the time their "comment" isn't even on subject. If you respond back and ask them to clarify the points they've tried to make, you'll get some statement like "Satan has blinded you!" or "You won't understand until you unblock Jehovah from your heart."

I'm sorry. The few JWs that I've come in contact with in recent years - even among the older adults who seem to have been long-time members - don't seem to have the skill or the desire to get into any meaningful discussion. They just want YOU to listen to them with YOUR ears open and YOUR mouth shut, but not to engage in any kind of meaningful dialogue. To them, "dialogue" is "monologue," with them talking and you listening (or reading).

JV

23

Identifying God and true religion

by Terry in

there is no doctrine required for kindness.. you can't get it "wrong".

there is no judgement.. there is nothing to memorize when putting your hand out to a suffering person.

the human touch on a fevered brow and the comforting squeeze of the hand is irrefutable.. you don't have to graduate from a seminary to offer a smile and ask somebody how they are---how they really are.. there are no grounds for debate or rebuttal in visiting the ill, the dying, the widowed or the orphaned.. .

Juan Viejo2

Geezus, Terry. You are on a roll. Can you bottle some of that talent up and ship it to me?

JV